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Racism in Western Feminism is Hurting Women Like Me

September 9, 2012

by Archismita Choudhury

See the picture to your left? “Some people are afraid of what might happen if EVERY GIRL could learn to read and write.” A few days ago, I uploaded it on a Facebook page that I run.  Next thing I know I was being accused of ISLAMOPHOBIA!!!

Apparently I was being Islamophobic because the girl in the picture is wearing a “burqa.”  I realized that the person accusing me was saying that through this picture I wanted to imply that Muslims are crude and that I was demeaning Islam.

First of all, if we are going to be talking about racist stereotyping, let me say this: Even though I’m an Indian, and most people have heard of the diversity of religions, cultures, languages, regions, tribes in India, I can’t tell with any certainty what religion or region or even country the girl in this picture belongs to!  How do you know she isn’t a Sikh, a Christian, a Hindu or a Bahai girl? I guess all us brown people are the same, yeah?

When asked what made her think the post targeted Muslims or Islam, she said “I take back Islamophobia, on first glance the veil blended into her hair and I thought I saw a burqa. But I will not back down that this still is charged with a lot of ethnic imagery. Going out on a limb here but this image has a whole lot of white privilege. Furthermore, by displaying a woman of SE Asian decent you are perpetuating Orientalism — making Eastern cultures seem crude and barbaric.”

Ok, first of all – even if the veil blended into her hair, that would not be a burqa. That would be a HIJAB (pro tip – do your research: the burqa covers head to foot, the hijab is just a head-scarf where the face is seen). And yes of course this is charged with “ethnic imagery!” That is because in the countries where females are denied education due to institutionalized sexism, most of them dress this way. What would you prefer? Shorts? That is an option, obviously, if you want to exercise “White Privilege” by dictating how other cultures be represented in social media. Guess the “ethnic imagery” is too sensitive for your tastes, huh? Are you unwilling to accept and/or recognize the brutal and violent sexism present in other countries? Scares you? Makes Eastern cultures seem “crude” and “barbaric”? How did you come to that conclusion from that picture? I do not think the picture in any way insinuated that.

I think it insinuates that the sexism (and I emphasize sexism here) present in Eastern cultures is crude and barbaric. Don’t you agree?

You don’t? Why?  Scared of being “politically incorrect”?  Maybe people have jumped on you shouting ISLAMOPHOBIA when you were criticized Islam or the sexism in “Eastern” cultures?  Maybe someone said you had White Privilege (therefore, you OBVIOUSLY can’t talk about it as well)?

Did you challenge the “racist” ,“Islamophobic”, “Orientalist” tag(s) like I am? Human rights violations are not justifiable and never can be. Never. Ever. Ever. And do not let anyone shame you with accusations of not respecting “cultures” into believing so.  I think the real racism comes from the people saying you must respect “other” culture’s prerogative to perpetuate practices that hurt, harm and kill women and girls.

Let me explain something else about racism.  See, when you accused me of “white privilege” on Facebook I thought it was funny because you  were already fundamentally biased in how you assumed that I must be white!!  This means you think that it is only white people who run sites on FaceBook. And you also assume that the only feminist issues that can be discussed without being subjected to such criticism (omg CULTURE, y’all!), are the ones that “first world white feminists” have labelled as feminist issues.  So the fight for abortion rights in the west is a feminist issue, but the fight against “honor” killings, dowry murders, female feticides that we women in the third world are subjected to are not feminist issues? Right? Because it sure seems that way when you silence such objections in the guise of culture.  Ironically, what you are doing is also done by patriarchs, misogynists and sexists.

Now see as an Asian feminist, I also want to know why we don’t see Christianophobia (is there a name for this?) in the same light as Islamophobia? I have seen people engage in virulent attacks against Christianity – and how they try to control women’s bodies by controlling issues of abortion and birth control.  And the critics are encouraged (yay! Speak up! Someone needs to tell them the truth, whoopee!!)  But whenever people criticize Islam, or third world cultural practices that oppress, and even kill females, we see cries of ISLAMOPHOBIA, ORIENTALISM, WHITE PRIVILEGE.

I mean, yeah, I know, Islamophobia is a problem in many societies, both western and eastern.  For e.g. the killing of innocent Sikhs mistaken for Muslims in the Wisconsin Gurudwara is actually Islamophobia, even if misplaced.

BUT people also need to hear and accept the truth about what happens to girls and women in other parts of the world, such as in Asia, where extreme sexism, misogyny and VIOLENCE against women are justified in the name of culture and religion (be it Hinduism, Islam, Christianity or whatever). 

And the truth I want to speak as an Indian is: INDIA IS WAY WORSE FOR GIRLS AND WOMEN THAN FIRST WORLD COUNTRIES ARE.

It’s not an off-handed statement.  But I would like to see you, who speaks of ‘white privilege,’ contend with this as a woman in your society.  INDIA is the fourth most dangerous country to be a girl. We have 1/3 of the world’s child brides.  One woman is burnt to death every 5 minutes only because someone was greedy for some more dowry.

And I also speak from my own experience, of course.

I have LIVED this stuff.

Yeah, I know I was born in a comparatively privileged class in India BUT it is only COMPARATIVELY.

For example, my father’s friend’s wife told my mum not to let me be too educated when they were talking about their children’s future plans regarding education (she has three daughters), or I might get “out of hand” and my mum was totally shocked (she’s a moderate feminist). If the so called privileged class in India thinks this way, think of the majority of the population living in India where virulent misogyny is acceptable, ironically always under the guise of “culture”.  Do you still say a “culture” which condones such sexism is not “crude” and “barbaric”?

Take a look at this video and see for yourself what women say about why they are not allowed to have an education in Indian villages.  They are saying exactly what this poster above is saying — that the men don’t want them to have an education because they don’t want them to become strong and independent.  Do you have something to say to them in response???? [click on this link to see the video]

I feel so angry when I find myself muzzled by people sitting in places far away, and pretending to be so enlightened and broadminded about the kind of abuse being inflicted on the girls and women in my country.

I’m really angry. I am ANGRY at the marginalization of my reality, my experiences!

I have no interest in being “politically correct” if it means sugar-coating critical issues affecting girls and women with denial and patronizing them.

How can the problems be corrected if no one is even willing to acknowledge the true extent of the problems and attempts to address such issues are silenced through accusations like this?

STOP shaming people (both in Asian AND western cultures) for speaking out against such issues. If you’re not comfortable speaking about it (for whatever reasons), please DO NOT SHAME OTHER PEOPLE FOR DOING SO.

STOP marginalizing women of colour and their lived experiences.

It marginalizes me because right now, my experiences are “othered”. People automatically assume all the pages on Facebook are all run by white people and “we” shouldn’t talk about “their” (the people from the third world who apparently are not on facebook) issues.  I’m a woman suffering under patriarchy too. This attitude does a disservice to me by saying my problems are too “complex” and “politically incorrect,” to be discussed globally as feminist issues.

I want this issue to have the same political and social clout that feminist issues in the west do.

I don’t want the west acting like a savior, or charity giver, and putting this cultural and politicized violence against women in my country on the same platform as hurricanes, earthquakes and famines. 

I just want you to recognize that my experiences are just as valid as yours, my problems are just as valid, my fight and my criticizing the culture which promotes such misogyny IS JUST AS VALID. I never heard someone tell me I cannot criticise Republicans because I’m not white or not American.

Issues affecting the women in my country should have the same legitimacy and global platform as feminist issues in the west.

Institutionalized misogyny and sexism that often violently violates the rights of girls and women in the guise of culture and religion in my country should be recognized and condemned just as western feminists have fought the Christian and Vatican mandated anti-abortion/ anti-birth control mentality that attempts to control their bodies and reproduction.

Issues of dowry murders, child-brides, and female genital mutilation should be discussed on an equal political and legal platform with abortion rights, sexual harassment and pornography, as issues that all feminists must acknowledge as Feminist issues, and that must be condemned and fought internationally.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR 

Archismita Choudhury is doing her Bachelor’s studies in Social Sciences at Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS), Guwahti. She defines herself as a secular humanist, a writer and a feminist, who “runs safe spaces for feminists to converse and have dialogue on the web.” She blogs at Feminism and Love (and Other Things) and tweets at @Archismita.

Also see part II of this debate: “Culture Centrism in India’s Feminist Movement is Hurting India’s Women”

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83 Comments leave one →
  1. September 9, 2012 9:26 am

    I have only just found your blog and I wanted to say thank you for saying this. Some white feminists are racist by ignoring the misogyny and woman hating practices that many South Asian and black women experience. All feminists should be condemning these practices and supporting women who are fighting against them.

    I understand why some white feminists do this. The charge of racism or islamophobia is used by men to stop women including feminists, challenging this stuff. And in many white liberal circles an accusation of racism does matter. It can get you ostracised, so no wonder so many white feminists are scared of being called racists.

    But it leaves those women who most need the support of other feminists, even more isolated.

    • The Great Smell Of Brute permalink
      September 15, 2012 4:02 pm

      “I understand why some white feminists do this. The charge of racism or islamophobia is used by men to stop women including feminists, challenging this stuff. And in many white liberal circles an accusation of racism does matter. It can get you ostracised, so no wonder so many white feminists are scared of being called racists.”

      Not only by men: there are plenty of women too who either participate directly, or are complicit, in forcing other women ‘back into the fold’.

      As for political ostracism, perhaps it would stop happening if more white, western feminists developed enough backbone to stand up to superficial criticism and took a principled, honest stand on the oppression of women in the developing world, and in some minority communities in the developed world.

  2. September 9, 2012 9:34 am

    So agree with this! Excellent commentary! Yes, Feminism and the Empowerment of women as a WHOLE is a worldwide struggle, against political, social and religious systems that hold ALL women down!
    -FeistyAmazon

  3. September 9, 2012 9:35 am

    And economic systems too.

  4. September 9, 2012 2:15 pm

    I like the image and approve of the message but you’re being accused of racism because you are accusing entire cultures of being sexist. Your ethnicity doesn’t exempt you from being racist and feminists have a right to challenge you on that.
    My advice would be to carry on regardless and not estrange yourself from western feminism. Once it’s uploaded to the web you have no control over how your work is perceived.

    • espa2008 permalink
      December 2, 2012 12:22 pm

      I agree with you in general Tarquin, but I’d argue ALL “entire cultures” ARE sexist, so it’s kind of a moot point. Obviously there are individuals within all cultures who aren’t sexist, but honestly, I can’t think of one single culture that couldn’t be reasonably accused of it.

  5. September 9, 2012 3:05 pm

    Re: your last paragraph, why are they feminist issues and not humanist issues?

    • September 16, 2012 9:54 am

      For the same reason the civil rights movement and the anti-apartheid movement had to be anti-racist movements along with being humanist movements. So we could name what that issue at hand is — name race then, and women’s rights for the feminist movement, and get working on it. Otherwise nothing gets done 🙂

    • Wendy permalink
      June 5, 2013 3:13 am

      It used to be rough for us western women too once upona time .,Widows were seen as easy targets by others and often ended up in saloons and such .I think you need to get as mean and as tough as the women did here a long time ago .I also think that if we had a Government like you do over in India ,things wouls be out of control here as well.You need to sack your Heads of the Country ,it is their Duty to ensure the safety of all Indian People in their own Country .You have no hope of ending or Changing this stigma unti you change you leader ship .

    • June 7, 2013 3:31 pm

      Exactly Wendy. And Indian women and other human rights groups have been fighting to clean up the government. See this. But one of our biggest problems is that the government is supported by western governments and big businesses, just like the South African apartheid government was for the longest time, till the western public forced their governments and big businesses to stop trading in on human rights. That forced the South African govt to finally dismantle apartheid. Our problem now is that that even feminists are playing into the hands of the Indian government in supporting rapists in the government. How can Indian women fight if the major western feminist groups do things like invite a politician in a high profile gang rape case to speak at their seminar, and then just leave it at ‘we are sorry’ and REFUSE TO even to APOLOGIZE TO THE VICTIM! Click here for the details.

  6. Jen permalink
    September 9, 2012 3:46 pm

    Thank you. Thank for being generous enough to use this as an opportunity to educate in spite of your justified anger. You have no obligation to do so and the information you offer may not be accepted but it shows amazing character. I am not sure I would have acted as well and it is an inspiration.

  7. September 9, 2012 4:11 pm

    You go girl! Keep up your work and never be discouraged.!

    Nycerbarb

  8. queenofthefight permalink
    September 9, 2012 6:38 pm

    I am a western female and I feel disgusted that some western woman would say this. I would not doubt this was a western male ‘posing’ as a female because men, in general, like you noted want to ‘keep woman down’. If they rise in any fashion, they work overtime to try and squash any independence. It’s about being ‘control freaks’ in my opinion. I feel strongly about the plight of ANY woman anywhere from misogyny, patriarchy or sexism. I suffer in a way all my own from male abuse as a white first world female, but I also have been around the world crying for the Asian female and Muslim female and the atrocities perpetrated against them. It’s purely wrong and men are cowards and perverted in hurting those most precious females no matter where in the world. I have read the princess sultana series, supposedly the biography of Arabic princesses smuggled out with a British writer to be published in the west. The men are allowed to be abusive and it sickens me. I was once waiting in an international wing of an airport travelling with my children alone eating in a restaurant, when I saw a Muslim male child about 14-15 years old look at me in a way that stripped me of all of my dignity. I was so shocked, that not only did he have lack of respect, but the arrogant repugnancy and disgust he openly showed for me as a woman, he was looking at me lower than an animal, and me, a white woman probably twice his age. I wondered, did I do something wrong? I looked around to see if there was anyone else around that he was looking at that way because he couldn’t possibly be looking at me (when I did nothing) but he was looking at me repugnantly solely from the fact that I was female! It was taught and learned hatred. He didn’t know me! I had a cold shiver run down my spine I became frozen and my head became dizzy at the at the sheer violence of a child with such a ‘birthright power’ for sanctioned violence for no reason other than my plumbing being inside rather than outside. It scared me for the women who must live under such violence and fear. It’s all barbaric, and I learned they are given power because of religion and their sick sex drives and greed.

    • September 11, 2012 9:32 pm

      “I was once waiting in an international wing of an airport travelling with my children alone eating in a restaurant, when I saw a Muslim male child about 14-15 years old look at me in a way that stripped me of all of my dignity. I was so shocked, that not only did he have lack of respect, but the arrogant repugnancy and disgust he openly showed for me as a woman, he was looking at me lower than an animal, and me, a white woman probably twice his age.”

      How horrible that he didn’t realize he was staring down a white woman, a WHITE woman. What has the world come to? am I right? No, you are a racist.

    • The Great Smell Of Brute permalink
      September 15, 2012 1:26 pm

      “I was once waiting in an international wing of an airport travelling with my children alone eating in a restaurant, when I saw a Muslim male child about 14-15 years old look at me in a way that stripped me of all of my dignity. I was so shocked, that not only did he have lack of respect, but the arrogant repugnancy and disgust he openly showed for me as a woman, he was looking at me lower than an animal, and me, a white woman probably twice his age.”

      Ooh, a teenaged boy from another culture dared to *give you a funny look* in a public place?! Well, he should clearly have lowered his gaze and backed away from you the moment that you caught his eye! How very oppressive of him to LOOK at you in a manner of which you, a white woman from the developed world, disapproved!!!

      As you’re about twice his age, perhaps you ought to re-examine your own evident arrogance and overdeveloped sense of entitlement, and stop trying to compare unpleasant, but ultimately trivial, incidents from your own life with the genuine oppression suffered by many, many women in developing countries; in other words, GROW UP and stop pretending that it’s always all about YOU.

      People like you give feminism a bad name.

    • September 16, 2012 10:13 am

      @The Great Smell of Brute. This is in context of your response to Queenofthefight. She is right. Boys in many countries in the East are taught from a very young age to treat women like trash. More so, girls in these countries are taught to withdraw or lower their gaze and regard that male contempt which begins with the glare, as “normal” and “acceptable.” We at the campaign can give you millions of examples of how girls and women in India are institutionalized to accept this, and we are trying to get them to recognize it as unacceptable exactly the way Queenofthefight has. Take the case of Roopa, a young dowry victim our campaign helped, (her story here). It is not just that she was beaten and raped by husband on a regular basis. But her little boy of 2 years was taught by his father to kick his mother, spit on her and call her a ‘whore.’ And when Roopa tried to escape, the men of the village grabbed her in the fields and brought her back to the house where she was being tortured by her husband and in-laws and after that they attempted to kill her by forcing her to drink acid. The thing is — public space and how genders interact is the first indicator of the gender power equation in any nation. Do also see our post on Street Sexual Harassment in India. It’s called ‘Eve Teasing.’ That already says a lot about how the culture views women’s safety on the streets, don’t you think?

    • The Great Smell Of Brute permalink
      September 28, 2012 5:09 pm

      @The 50 Million Missing Campaign, thank you for that brief lesson in the bleedin’ obvious, but you’ve clearly missed MY point: certain feminists from developed countries (and usually from privileged backgrounds to boot) have an awful habit of comparing the very minor slights which they receive in their daily lives with the horrible injustices which women suffering in many developing countries as though they were equivalent, thus trivialising the latter.

      I was perfectly well aware of the manner in which men in many developing countries are conditioned and taught to treat women. My remark was directed at queenofthenight’s self-absorbed attitude in addressing the issue, rather than being a critique of the issue itself.

    • sbc permalink
      November 28, 2012 8:12 pm

      The people replying here who are talking about how this was a “very minor slight”, and how queenofthefight is the worst person ever, are doing the same thing–totally overreacting, jumping to hateful conclusions about a person’s character and motivations based on one comment.

  9. September 9, 2012 6:55 pm

    “Human rights violations are not justifiable and never can be. Never. Ever. Ever. And do not let anyone shame you with accusations of not respecting “cultures” into believing so. I think the real racism comes from the people saying you must respect “other” culture’s prerogative to perpetuate practices that hurt, harm and kill women and girls.”

    Well said. I believe in respecting other cultures and differences, but I also think there have to be certain universal truths or values. I would have thought teaching everyone to read and write would have been non-controversial enough to be one of them.

  10. September 9, 2012 7:18 pm

    Wonderful post!

    What kept running through my mind reading this, is how transparent privilege is. It is because of privilege that western feminists feel free to determine what feminism IS, what feminism should mean for other cultures, what women of those cultures should or should not do, how they should be presented.

    But even when western feminist support non-western women, often they do so in a patronizing way, appropriating their narratives, speaking FOR them. IMO, the only way to approach the issue is to be aware of your privilege, to come as an *ally*, which also means approaching from a listening stance, rather than a speaking stance, from a learning perspective, rather than a teaching one. Coming to support, follow, cheer — rather than try to lead.

  11. Joyce permalink
    September 9, 2012 7:18 pm

    The girl isn’t wearing a burqa, she’s wearing hijab.

  12. September 9, 2012 9:01 pm

    I applaud your forthright pwning of that ignoramus, Ms Choudhury, as well as your efforts to make people aware of the discriminatory cultures that keep women down by not educating them. I believe that the education of girls and women throughout the world is a key to solving many global issues, such a overpopulation. Good on you for standing up to this ignorant privileged western woman. I assure you that we are not all as uneducated as she. Thank you for your efforts. All the best.

  13. September 9, 2012 9:39 pm

    I am so impressed by your rationalization and you know what, you are RIGHT in what you are saying. As a writer of books about abused women who just happen to be Muslim, I have received many such similar rants that I am attacking Islam (NOT SO — I respect all religions) but I do write stories that make it clear that certain cultures are more harmful toward women. Not that women are not abused everywhere, they are, but some cultures accept abuse more than others. I really respect your stance. VERY BEST to you!

    • September 12, 2012 4:40 am

      Can you post any statistics which show the greater prevalence of domestic abuse in some cultures over others with economics as a variable which is controlled for? I haven’t come across any in my research.

      It might be insightful to note that if you don’t have those statistics your claim that “… that certain cultures are more harmful toward women” is a racist opinion and not a fact.

    • September 12, 2012 8:33 am

      “… that certain cultures are more harmful toward women” is not a racist opinion. It would be racist if she said it is due to a particular trait in the community which was assigned at birth.
      She did not. “… that certain cultures are more harmful toward women because they are so brown and barbaric” would be racist.

    • September 16, 2012 10:00 am

      Jean Sasson — We are thrilled to have your support on our campaign blog here!! You books give a voice to the stories of many women in the Muslim world — and that’s exactly what we women need to be doing. We need to un-silence the gags our patriarchal cultures have put on us. We hope you will do some books on India too 🙂 Thank you !!!

  14. Valerie Connell permalink
    September 10, 2012 12:15 am

    You totally rock. Thank you so much for writing this. You have one white Western woman in your corner always xoxo

  15. Nat permalink
    September 10, 2012 3:05 am

    Right on. Thank you for this retort. I found that person’s comments on your original post to be down right uneducated.

  16. September 10, 2012 4:28 am

    On a small note you (and the original picture) are mistaking realities shaped by economics with realities shaped by cultures.

    On a larger note, if someone accuses you of racism for putting a single picture up with regards to misogyny, they are an idiot.

    However if the someone accuses you of being part of a movement that will blame one issue on a culture (See link 1) and another on an individual (See link 2) depending on the perpetrators race, and they do it because you adhere to that pattern, then they are thoughtful and insightful.

    See link 3, if you need to understand why certain stories are internationalized and hence a narrative built to save “brown women from brown men”.

    See link 4, for a PDF talking about over 17000 murders in the US which if occurred in Pakistan would be called “honour killings”.

    1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/06/afghanistan-attack-female-actors

    2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Montreal_shooting

    3. http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/zhn80/afghan_actress_stabbed_to_death_by_male_mob_for/

    4. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toddkshackelford.com%2Fdownloads%2FMize-Shackelford-Weekes-Shackelford-PAID-2011.pdf&ei=lmtNUKzqPMyP0QHfkYDwDw&usg=AFQjCNGaHUHA70idg1yB9bBlP24o9-cK8A

    So what is my point? Your blog is about a straw man. You aren’t Islamophobic, that’s the wrong word. You are a part of a racist movement which dehumanizes brown men by creating narratives which are not statistically verifiable.

    Your existential struggle as a woman is valid, will always be valid and will always be welcome. Your mixing of your struggle as a (brown) woman with the cultural-colonialism of the west in which you will find few brown men in roles other than “the terrorist” or “Raj (The Big Bang Theory)” is not valid, will never be valid, and unwelcome.

    • September 12, 2012 9:05 am

      Culture definitely has a part re: first link..
      I really don’t see any race issue re: second link. I do not think the criminal was influenced by “race”.
      And re: third link, I definitely think it CAN be used to justify wars, but no – I do not believe the mysoginist culture should be excused. As long as people don’t use it to excuse wars, I do not see what is your problem.
      re: fourth link ” a PDF talking about over 17000 murders in the US which if occurred in Pakistan would be called “honour killings””.. Incidents in both countries must be condemned. I didn’t read the link (I’m busy) but if the murders in US are really because women are killed because of inter-race or whatever marriages, because it is thought that the family’s honor would go down, that it was the only way to save “honor” or similar, then yes they SHOULD be. And just because there exist in US such incidents doesn’t mean honor killings in the Indian subcontinent is somehow less worthy of being condemned. It is definitely a culture thing. A misogynist, patriarchal culture.
      and yes, some cultures are more accepting of this (I didn’t see anyone passing a “diktat” opposing the use of cell-phones by women in America).
      “So what is my point? Your blog is about a straw man. You aren’t Islamophobic, that’s the wrong word. You are a part of a racist movement which dehumanizes brown men by creating narratives which are not statistically verifiable.”
      Yes. I’m a part of a nefarious racist movement which dehumanizes brown men because I pointed out how human rights are excused in the name of culture. Didn’t you understand anything?

      “Your existential struggle as a woman is valid, will always be valid and will always be welcome. Your mixing of your struggle as a (brown) woman with the cultural-colonialism of the west in which you will find few brown men in roles other than “the terrorist” or “Raj (The Big Bang Theory)” is not valid, will never be valid, and unwelcome.”
      Yeah, obviously, I live in a nation (which has an obscene amount of men in comparision to men btw) and interact and talk with men here and OBVIOUSLY I will find few brown men in roles other than “the terrorist” or “Raj (The Big Bang Theory) even though I have met men here more archaic than you can think – shaped by a patriarchal, misogynist culture and socialisation and a culture which accepts and condones it [because you say so! yey!]. I do not base my ideas of how men act on sitcoms but real-life interactions and OBVIOUSLY I must not hurt the sentiments of men when I write (what? you’re writing about how husbands in India force wives to get an illegal sex determination test and abort it if it is a female and how the culture prevalent accepts it and encourages it? STOP IT. Why are you dehumanizing men?!!)

      WAHT ABOUT TEH MENZ?

      Your argument about how I was part of a movement which dehumanizes brown men was fallacious.

      Most people did get what I was trying to say, though. So maybe I didn’t write that bad.

      Check your privilege – it blinds you to what my post is about.

  17. September 10, 2012 4:33 am

    I need to clarify one thing. I am by no means suggesting that the struggle of the (brown) woman needs to be silenced. Far from it, I will shout on rooftops along with you.

    First however, you must denounce and untangle yourself from western propaganda which aims to dehumanize the brown man so that wars in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Sudan can be sold easier.

    • queenofthefight permalink
      September 10, 2012 5:31 am

      Maybe this is the Creator’s way of punishing the brown man for his crimes against his women…

    • Dan Drew permalink
      September 11, 2012 3:20 am

      So, Pi, I am to understand that I should not be concerned of the well being of my fellow humans in India, merely because my skin adapted an ability to better absorb vitamin D to live in northern regions that get less light? There is no such thing as RACE, other than the human race. As it stands, there are far more atrocities occurring against women in India, the Middle East and Africa than the rest of the world. Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that the males of these regions have varying degrees of darker skin pigmentation than I do. It is do to less available education, serious inequality between the poor and the rich and a culture of tolerance for the abuse of women.
      We must attack all of these issues to make the WORLD a better place for everyone, and that means that I can not in good conscience allow myself to ignore any type of human rights abuse, whether I can absorb more vitamin D than the person who is receiving the abuse can, or not.
      And as far of “making the wars easier to digest” crap goes, I will have you know that most Americans are fed up with wasting our resources and young men and women’s lives in over sea conflicts. And, I can’t speak for everyone, but I know that myself and those close to me are sickened when innocents in these countries where these wars are being waged are killed. Hypocritical, at best. You seem to only concern yourself with the struggles of “the brown man and woman”. As long as people are viewed as anything but human alone, your struggle will remain.

    • sbc permalink
      November 28, 2012 8:20 pm

      “First however, you must denounce and untangle yourself from western propaganda which aims to dehumanize the brown man” All of these excuses and explanations of why feminism should take a back seat to cultural impunity and demonizing the West are just incredibly pretentious mental gymnastics.

  18. September 10, 2012 1:40 pm

    Outstanding post. Way to not be scared into silence. Good job!

    ~From Russia with Love

  19. maxyne baker permalink
    September 10, 2012 6:06 pm

    Being a white Canadian and coming from a history of colonialism, I personally will not comment, or involve myself in this debate. I am sick and tired of living in a culture that interferes with other cultures but doesn’t clean up their own back yard. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to learn from the opinions shared;)

  20. September 10, 2012 7:57 pm

    Thank you. I am a Western woman of Indian background, and I have noticed the same thing as you are describing here. From what I have seen, white feminists subscribe very much to a simple ‘women are victims, men are oppressors’ view which makes it impossible for them to understand the complexities of misogyny in other cultures. I don’t know about you – I’m not denying that men benefit from patriarchal systems in India and elsewhere, but women are very active footsoldiers of the patriarchy too, and I cannot just overlook it and blame men all the time. This is a large part of why I now consider myself a womanist rather than a feminist.

  21. September 11, 2012 9:34 pm

    Dan Drew, you didn’t read my post. You created a straw man and then destroyed it.

    I am sure lighter pigmentation does not cause retardation, so please reread my post and try to respond to it intellectually.

    • Dan Drew permalink
      September 20, 2012 4:06 am

      That’s funny, since I felt that you were the one creating a straw man. I won’t get you to agree with me because you are dug into an ideological ditch.

  22. Gayaisbrown permalink
    September 12, 2012 3:58 pm

    Pi’s comments are rather rich.

    1. I oppose British imperialism, but I am not going to say like Spivak that Sati shouldn’t have been abolished and that Sati abolishment was imperialism. Sati freed all of us who are from Hindu families from something that could have been the norm. You can oppose imperialism while supporting certain progressive actions by imperialists. Those two are not contradictory.

    2. Why must brown women (subaltern women) shut up and put up with grave injustice like murder, rape, acid attacks, etc– just so that subaltern men are not negatively viewed? The privileged attitude here is that somehow, the image of subaltern men is so much more important than the indignities suffered by subaltern women. It is privileging race over gender.

    3. The reference to war in Afghanistan is ridiculous. NATO went in there to remove Al Qaeda and Taliban. Helping women there is an aside and was never cited as a reason for starting the war. If their first thought was about women, they would have invaded Afghanistan a long time back. For NATO, helping women out is an afterthought after stabilizing the country. Do women’s groups like Women’s International or rights groups like Amnesty/HRW support NATO presence to help with women’s rights? Yes. But that is not why NATO is there. Anyone and everyone ought to know that.

    4. //which dehumanizes brown men by creating narratives which are not statistically verifiable.//

    Yeah, right–because America or UK or Sweden, etc has the same problem of female foeticide, female infanticide, dowry deaths, acid attacks, honor killings and killers/rapists are feted and excused as champions of their clan/tribe/biradari/caste/religion. Because marrying off women against their will to pay off debts, to settle rivalries is very common in Sweden or Japan–because child marriage to an “adhed budhdha” is just as common there.

    ::facepalm::

    • September 14, 2012 1:16 am

      I am glad you understand that my post is all about the subaltern voice. I hope that you will intellectually comprehend the last sentence in this post.

      1. I agree. I am an Afghan and have no issue with the current American presence there.

      2. I did not ask the brown woman to be silent. I specifically mentioned in my second post that I did not ask for that.

      To an egalitarian, the fight of the subaltern man and the subaltern woman are one and the same, a choice between the two is a false dichotomy. I asked that we move past the delusion that the dehumanization of the subaltern man will create a voice for the subaltern woman, in fact it only creates one for racists. However tempting this delusion we must avoid it.

      3. The American empire’s foreign policy is devoid of any egalitarianism while their internal and external propaganda is full of it. I was speaking about the propaganda not their actual interests.

      4. Crack whores are more common in the US than in India, this doesn’t make the situation of women in general worse or better in the US than in India.

      Specifically in regards to “honour killings”, I asked that a study which controls for economics in which the prevalence of “honour killings” is compared between different countries be presented before a narrative of misogyny is accepted based on a claim that such statistics are self-evident.

  23. Gayaisbrown permalink
    September 12, 2012 4:06 pm

    Cultures across the spectrum vary in their misogyny–no culture is free of patriarchy. But there are degrees of patriarchal oppression. Anyone who says India’s patriarchy and cultural acceptance of oppression of women is on the same level as that of the “west” is a liar and is supporting a misogynist narrative. I don’t need non-Indians who’ve never lived a day in India to tell me that I am racist against Indian men because I state uncomfortable truths about Indian culture’s patriarchy and how much Indian men use it and benefit from it.
    I also don’t need some clueless western post-modernist to come tell me that her oppression is somehow equal to the oppression faced a village girl in Haryana.

  24. September 12, 2012 4:36 pm

    Thanks for writing this. I’m a “brown man” from India who’s experienced racism from white people in the UK and the US. I’m also very well acquainted with the social system of racism in those countries. Here are my thoughts, I hope it’s coherent:

    – When a white person/news story/facebook post says something critical about my country/region/culture, I can decide for myself whether it’s racist or whether their criticisms are valid. “We” (i.e. the brown people in question) are better placed to figure this out than “you” (i.e. white people). “We” won’t all agree, but it’s for us to figure out. Try to be an ally rather than a spokesperson. Before declaring something racist, listen to what we – brown women in particular – have to say about it. By silencing criticism with accusations of racism, you might in fact be hurting the very women you should be helping.

    – When I criticize misogynistic cultural (yes cultural) practices and values that are endemic to my country or region, I don’t want well-meaning white liberals to explain to me (whitesplaining??) that I’m participating in some white supremacist bias. Again, assume that we can figure this our for ourselves.

    • Emmalani permalink
      April 22, 2013 12:00 am

      Very well said sir.I applaud one of the only valid opinions I have read in this entire thread.

  25. September 14, 2012 1:08 am

    The Indofeminist, I will leave you to reread my well cited post. You didn’t read it properly, I will prove this for you if you wish, but first I will give you another chance to read my post and become a more intellectual part of this discussion.

    You must read what I write before responding to it. Otherwise you are being intellectually dishonest.

    • September 14, 2012 6:33 am

      I really do not have time to read your third link.
      PS you can read my comment again. If pointing out how culture affects perceptions is racist, and talking about my lived experiences and talking about patriarchy in 3rd world countries is racist then yes I am. That is what I’m talking about. That is what my post was about. If you’re talking about something else, you probably didn’t understand what I was trying to say.
      I also do not have time to keep replying to every random commenter so I’ll leave you with this.

  26. September 14, 2012 6:06 am

    I need to point out that Archismita’s viewpoint is NOT

      representative of a majority of Indian women. But here at The 50 Million Missing Campaign this is the kind of voices we are looking to emphasize and that’s why we published her piece. As founder of this campaign, I can tell you I’ve faced immense resistance not just from western feminist groups but also from Indian feminist/women’s groups. Someone mentioned Spivak, but I’ve interacted across the spectrum, met with women at NGOs, professors, activists, and most of them like Spivak end up explaining or rationalizing this violence in one way or another. Except for a few lone dissenting voices, insisting this is a human rights issue, most of the prominent Indian feminist voices that the world is hearing, end up trying to rationalize this violence in some strange cultural context. In 20 years India will have annihilated 20% of women before and after birth. And this is not poverty because the poorest 20% of Indians have the most normal gender ratio. The actual killing of infants is not among the poorest but among those that have some farm and land. And as the wealth and education increases — the rate of killing increases. In the main cities most of the dowry violence cases are among the wealthiest. The worst gender ratio is in the top most 20% of Indians. Even when I present facts, figures, research — women in women’s ngos in India will shake their heads and say ‘Educate the public’ or they say ‘This is happening everywhere.’ It’s happening everywhere? One woman murdered for dowry every 5 minutes. The rate at which girls under 5 years are killed is 75% higher than boys that age. Do they really believe this is happening everywhere? I find this kind of denial unbelievable!! The denial and the cultural process of blindly worshiping family and culture is so deeply engrained that I think that even Indian feminism is trapped in it. I have been repeatedly told by western feminists who support this campaign — that they face immense hostility from Indian feminists who accuse them of racism and other things. Recently I wrote an article called ‘Why Kali Won’t Rage‘ questioning the response of the Indian feminist movement to India’s female gendercide. And it received the most hostile, and irrational response from Indian women. Even the Indian feminists who agree would tell me that they are scared of facing the Indian feminist movement and prefer to stay quiet otherwise it gets into ugly “spats.” So part of the reason that I think western feminist movements are responding the way they are is that that’s what they see the majority of the Indian feminists demanding. The other reason is very selfish. What I’ve realized is that their major issue is the female feticide. They see this as an “anti-abortion” issue. Even when I have tried to explain to western feminist groups that women in India are put through tremendous torture and pressure to abort daughters, and many who give birth to girls get killed, I was told by one western, very pro-choice feminist, “It’s between a rock and a hard place, but it is still choice!” I was shocked. I’ve lived in the U.S. for many years. I’ve been an active supporter of the pro-choice movement, and I know that this would never be accepted as “choice” for a western woman. Because choice is not about abortion but about recognizing that a woman’s body is her individual domain and no one has any right over her sexuality or reproduction. But the sad thing is, there is much more that’s killing girls and women in India — infanticides, dowry murders, honor killings (go through our blog here), but because the western feminist movement wants to adhere to its (dishonest) vision — that India’s female gendercide is an ‘anti-abortion’ issue, they willfully disregard all the ways that violence is being inflicted on a genocidal scale on Indian girls and women. I think that there is a deep need for honesty and integrity both on the part of the Indian Feminist Movement and the Western Feminist Movement, if we are ever to make violence on women a global human rights issue.
  27. September 14, 2012 6:38 am

    I meant link 4.
    Also, talking about patriarchy and female emancipation was never “welcome”. I do not care if people shun ideas of how women are oppressed by the patriarchy.
    And these realities are shaped by culture to large extent. Economics *may* play a part but a patriarchal culture is the main culprit.

  28. Gayaisbrown permalink
    September 14, 2012 6:57 am

    @Pi

    1. Great, we agree.

    2. You say that, but then you somehow try to put the subaltern woman and subaltern man on the same place of power–when clearly a subaltern man has more power within the structure than the subaltern woman. Demanding some form of “equal treatment” here is essentially negating the chasm of power differential between subaltern men and women. In these societies, even non-subaltern women are put below subaltern women. A quick look at how badly white female tourists are treated and harassed should put to rest the idea that subaltern men lack power over women. There is such a thing as intersectionality of powers, in which gender power is very much high up top–even more so than race and class in South Asian societies. Pointing out this misogyny on part of subaltern men doesn’t dehumanize them, it shows they have and abuse power over whoever they can. And many of them do.

    3. I don’t know which propaganda you’ve been listening to, but nowhere were *any* wars started by them to “liberate women”–ever. So can we drop this whole charade that pointing out how badly subaltern men treat their women is somehow leading to wars? That in itself is the biggest load of pseudo-leftist propaganda to silence subaltern women.

    4. Your term “crack whores” shows your inherent sexism. And how in the hell do you know there aren’t women who prostitute for crack, opium, money, etc in India or Afghanistan? Afghanistan very much has a problem with prostitution, child and sex trafficking and *rampant* addiction problems that are unseen in most parts of the world. India also has a huge addiction problem that is rarely acknowledge, let alone dealt with by the authorities. Not to mention India is one of the top destinations for pedophilic tourism and ranks in the top 5 for sexual trafficking and slavery. Both Afghanistan and India rank among the worst of the worst places to be a woman. Who are you kidding by comparing US or Sweden or UK to places like India or Afghanistan?

  29. Gayaisbrown permalink
    September 14, 2012 7:03 am

    @Pi

    //Specifically in regards to “honour killings”, I asked that a study which controls for economics in which the prevalence of “honour killings” is compared between different countries be presented before a narrative of misogyny is accepted based on a claim that such statistics are self-evident.//

    How many honour killings happen in Phillipines, impoverished Latin America, etc?
    Also, why is there a surge in honor killings in the developed world with the influx of South Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants–including families like that of Noor Al Maliki, Aasiya Zubair, Palestina Isa, Sandeela Kanwal, the Said sisters, the Shafia sisters, etc?

  30. September 16, 2012 9:50 am

    Also check out part II of this debate, just posted “Culture-Centrism in the Indian Feminist Movement is Hurting India’s Women”

  31. September 20, 2012 6:57 am

    The criticisms come an educated class with access to computers. Literate people are in the minority. I have the grace to realise that this is a special gift that comes from the so called ‘accident of birth’ . What is wrong with wanting to ensure others have similar opportunities. This article is intellectually beyond most people, it is an elite argument that passes by the illiterate, Let us be thankful that people are trying to help others.

  32. Miss K. permalink
    September 23, 2012 9:08 am

    I often run into examples of the women you are blogging about, however in my case their guns are loaded with anti-aging diatribe. The most important part of your conversation should be the part where you listen to each other’s opinions. The second most important part is finding the common ground and dismissing the rest.
    I was a 50 year old college student when I learned there were”waves” of Feminism!
    I thought ALL women were feminists because the cause and the agenda we support benefits every women.
    Thank you for bringing your POV to me.
    Miss K.

  33. November 17, 2012 10:58 am

    Reblogged this on Women Left Behind by Mainstream Feminism and commented:
    I am glad another woman has stepped forward regarding the problems within the Sisterhood. I hope her blog and my blog inspire more women to speak out against the holes in Feminism.

  34. November 17, 2012 11:01 am

    Hello. I am new to WordPress and I recently started a blog because I too have problems with Feminism. I will not go into it, but I know what it is like for white feminists to completely over look problems they can’t understand or relate to.

  35. sbc permalink
    November 28, 2012 8:08 am

    This is the best article I have ever seen that describes my problem with feminism. If you are a feminist, it should be a no-brainer that you place women’s rights as a higher priority than religious appeasement.

    • June 5, 2013 6:50 am

      religious appeasement can only result from respect, in all countries of the world, of human rights,freedom of expression, freedom to walk safe on the streets , equal treatment of people no matter what gender, religion , ethnic origin, color of the skin, sexual orientation, internationally agreed upon. If people are discriminated the way we know they are for these reasons in several countries, and if those countries are the ones that defend religious states instead of secular ones, if sharia is imposed to people, then i cannot see that religious appeasement will ever be possible and no , women’s right is in a higher priority because it’s a condition for religious appeasement!

  36. November 28, 2012 1:41 pm

    As a white American woman, I say “fuck cultures that embrace misogyny”! No, I will not respect China’s “right” to say sons are worth more than daughters…I will not respect middle eastern cultures that mutilate little girls’ genitals…and I will not be politically correct when women are dying in the name of “culture” and “religion”! If that makes me a racist, so be it. (I don’t think it does though) ❤

  37. December 2, 2012 8:16 am

    When we were fighting against apartheid in South Africa, I can never remember to hear from any of the politically corect liberals that we must acept the Boers culture. If they had said the same as they do when it is women that are discriminated against, that we must gain the trust of the leaders and work toegther with them, then Nelson Mandela would have died in prison 😦

  38. Nai permalink
    December 2, 2012 1:18 pm

    As an African American/Woman of Color feminist/womanist who is also a Muslim, I have mixed feelings about this. I agree that it is ignorant and presumptuous to accuse someone of (nuanced) Islamophobia if you do not even know the basics, such as the difference between a burqa and hijab. However, I can see how if she made certain generalizations about the image, it might be an indicator of how the image is being interpreted by “the western mainstream” i.e. the majority of Americans (and others) who do not know the difference between a burqa and hijab. This went through my mind when I first saw this image, and decided not to share it on facebook, because not everyone would understand. I was afraid that it might promote more ignorance toward South Asian culture and religion. While I might take issue, for example with the cultural lens with which South Asian Islamic scholars make judgments on religious matters, I do believe there is a certain respect that should be given to culture, particularly by those who are not of that culture – they do not understand the context, history, social order, etc. I’d be interested to know if the status of women in society in South Asia was better before Islam, since, in many parts of the world, including Arabia, Islam had a liberating influence with regard to, for example, criminalizing female infanticide, setting ethical standards for the treatment of female slaves and limiting the number of wives to four for even the richest of men (significantly less than what was allowed in Judaism). But, as for most Islamic societies, and in patriarchal societies in general (presumably all societies in known history are patriarchal), as the man is usually responsible for financially supporting a wife and children, it makes sense that, a family with limited resources would more likely sacrifice to send their male child to school than their female child. Not saying it’s right, but that part makes sense. However, preventing women from being educated, and generally supporting illiteracy and lack of access to education among women, is another, more insidious issue.

    But I digress…my point is that, she had what might have been a legitimate concern (in theory), but it was crazy for her to make an accusation with forcefulness and hostility because she doesn’t know she’s talking about. BUT if the girl had been wearing a burqa, I could have more clearly seen it as an Islamophobic image. I mean, I could see an anti-Islam group adopting the image and misusing it as it is. It begs the question, who is the intended audience? Who made it and why? I think it would have been better with a younger girl, no scarf, so that the message is more direct and undiluted. The message though, is something I can get with. Reminds me of the PBS documentary “Solar Mamas” where mothers from all over the world (including an illiterate mother of nine from Jordan) are trained as solar engineers in India. You really saw how training a mother has more of a positive, long-lasting impact for the community and the family than training a young man (who will likely flee the country at the earliest opportunity). Also, in African American communities, studies have shown that the education level of the mother is the single most important/influential factor in educational success of the child. But yea…there have to be ways to bring attention to this important issue than an image that gives off “Muslims are barbaric” vibes….because apparently, that’s all some people are seeing. Again…I do not take issue with sharing it at all. I just made a personal decision not to, and shared some of my thoughts. Peace y’all.

  39. December 2, 2012 8:18 pm

    This article popped up in my Twitter feed. I wanted to give some of my reactions. First off, I’m a white American and reasonably privileged. I know that in the past, I have expressed concern about the way women are treated in other cultures. I think child brides and burning women for dowries are practices that are particularly horrifying. But I also know that bringing these issues up is a good way to find yourself in a difficult conversation about racism/culture/sexism. To be blunt, sometimes these conversations go over head. Not that I shy away from difficult conversations, but I guess what I am saying is that I don’t always feel prepared.

    I also think that as a white person who wants to make good, you can sometimes find yourself in a “White Savior” situation. That is the last thing I want to do, but these problems are difficult. So you feel concerned about making things worse.

    BUT having said all that, you are absolutely right. No one should silence you. Sometimes I think the best thing white people could do is just SHUT UP. And that is what I am going to do. Thank you for your post. I am going to put it on FB feed.

  40. December 3, 2012 1:40 am

    Cultural relativism has got to go. Feminism is extremely “white” in western society to the point where we’re completely oblivious to the fact that patriarchy exists *in most cultures*.

    I find that a lot of white westerners are afraid of addressing the struggles of women in non-western places, simply because they’re afraid of looking “bigoted” and that their solidarity with these women comes out of some hatred of Islam or all-round xenophobia. Nothing could be further from the truth. We recognize that women all over the world struggle, but we do not pretend to be their “white saviors” nor do we specifically target them out of some irrational hatred for their culture. If anything, we recognize that patriarchy has no borders, color, and so on.

  41. Donna permalink
    December 4, 2012 12:05 am

    Someone I know who is highly committed to women’s rights confessed that she wondered where the line is between respect for the culture and women’s rights. My reply was this: If the cultural practice violates the International Declaration of Human Rights, it is not protected by culture, ethnicity, or national boundaries. Abuse based on gender is as much a violation of human rights as an abuse based on race.

  42. February 22, 2013 7:42 pm

    this is the best thing i’ve read in the longest time
    thank you so much

  43. lizoblioz permalink
    March 5, 2013 9:53 am

    wow so many guys up in here playing off the race thing. as long as we believe in race as females, we will be stepping on ourselves and oppressing ourselves. we must ascend belief in race, race is not real, it is an extremely effective tool to divide women worldwide and keep them the caretakers of men and believers in male supremacy.

  44. Michelle permalink
    April 22, 2013 2:23 am

    I agree with you but don’t assume the detractors are white women behind the keyboards. As a white women myself, I would not marginalize, not trivialize, not discount the difficult experiences of my eastern female counterpart’s experience. My bet is that it is the abusive men posing as ‘white women’ to divide and distract and attack from the real issue at hand, which is deplorable treatment of women period. I can’t apologize for other evil people, but I myself, am horrified at what I hear goes on in other lands and my heart breaks for these women. I wish that there was something I could do to change their circumstances, but I feel not being open to any woman hurts your cause. Beware that all that seems to be, may not be – it may be your own trying to divide and conquer. I just can’t see another woman not having compassion and empathy for another woman’s abuse – it just doesn’t make sense because we all suffer in various degrees. Women’s abuse from men is worldwide albeit differing levels, but we still all suffer just being women none- the- less. I’m sorry for your experience. I don’t trust your men, nor do I trust ours period.

  45. June 5, 2013 5:10 am

    There is no share for facebook, but will make a link. This text reveals the real problem indeed! Yes there is a strong bias in western femininism, I don´t belong ti any movement but i can see the issues are short sighting , self centered on western issues. Hope this will change. India’s population is about the same as Europe and USA added. After all if half the population is a woman in India, we have about 600 million and that is about the double of women in Europe and USA put together! But i dont know how is feminism doing in India. I have been following the “50 million missing women” and signed all the petitions. But more has to be done, the indian feminist movement has to grow to be heard in India and internationally! I know it is much more difficult in India, but women in the west had to fight a lot to have the simple right to vote, in difficult circumstances. So let’s hope!

    • June 7, 2013 11:39 am

      There is facebook share button Maria. Perhaps the server was too slow at the time you opened the page. But sometimes refereshing the page helps.

  46. Bruce Rogers permalink
    June 7, 2013 1:32 am

    I cannot understand why thinking people are letting women be downtrodden and marginalised – without women, we would be nothing – it is so important to transcend all racial and religious grounds to make women equal with men. I am an average guy, but believe in full equality for women. Some men are frightened of them because they are smarter. Well guys, get over yourselves and let the girls out!!!

    • Thomas permalink
      September 5, 2013 7:23 am

      Bruce–Feminism does not scare me. It is beautiful in theory, and many good solutions have been made into law. What I reject about it is that it has gone too far too fast and the results are killing the American family unit.
      What I have come to dislike in women in general is the aggressive in your face attitudes so many of them have adopted. There are also huge double standards that need to be addressed.

      1) women hit men all the time when they are angry and nothing happens, but if a guy hits a women—jail time.

      2) women can serve in the military with full pay, rank advancement, retirement, etc., but they do not have to enroll in the selective service, and they are not compelled in to frontline, house to house combat duty.

      3) Courts have historically been more lenient on women for certain crimes.

      4) If a woman calls the police and says that you hit her when you did not—you go to jail no questions asked.

      5) Women want to cherry-pick through traditional male roles, careers, customs, and practices and take the cream and leave the lumps. Men get left with almost all of the dangerous jobs.
      Believe me when I say—there are no feminists on sinking ships, hostage situations, fires, home invasions etc.

      6) Women mistakenly try to be assertive but instead are aggressive. They often have no idea what it means to be a man, and their imitation skills backfire.

      Women want to behave this way and yet still want the door held for them, want help lifting, want you to protect them in emergencies, want help with roadside flat tires, etc. The list goes on.

      In closing, many women are wonderful and make great partners. They respect and appreciate all the qualities a man brings to the table. Yet many other women want their cake and eat it too. They are infected with double standards that repel guys like me. I am no great catch, so they are not missing out LOL

  47. August 25, 2013 4:26 am

    “And the truth I want to speak as an Indian is: INDIA IS WAY WORSE FOR GIRLS AND WOMEN THAN FIRST WORLD COUNTRIES ARE.”

    I am an Indian woman as well, and I really want to thank you for making this statement. Personally, I have felt very marginalized by western feminists who bully you to no end if you try and stand up for the oppressed women in YOUR OWN culture. I mean, it wouldn’t even be wrong for them to be standing up for women in Indian culture, but how in hell is it wrong for me to be standing up and pointing out the brutality perpetrated by men in my own culture?

    Western cultural relativists are absolutely disgusting. They want one standard for them and other for women in other cultures. They are willing to throw all of us non-western women under the bus just to status whore amongst themselves to see who can get to most PC erudite.

    They hate it when you point out the brutality of the brown man because it is a fucking fact that the present day brutality of the white man cannot compare. Sorry people, but white western dudes don’t go on TV every day to give precise lessons on where and how to beat your wife. White western dudes don’t eat first and let women feed off the leftovers so that the women remain chronically undernourished. They decided that the number one enemy had to be the evil white privilege man, so it disturbs them when you point out that no, they don’t have a monopoly on misogyny and that brown people can be victimizers too.

    • Thomas permalink
      September 5, 2013 6:55 am

      I pray for a better life for women in your country. As a man, please let me make a suggestion. Do not be too impressed with western feminism. It had the right ideas and lofty goals, but it has failed to bring unity. In fact, the divorce rate in the U.S. is slowly killing our society and culture. More and more men will no longer get married and promiscuous sex is their solution. Feminism has been great for women, but they have gone too far too fast, and men are fleeing from aggressive feminists. Personally, I would prefer to marry a woman from another culture—one that understands human nature better.

  48. Thomas permalink
    September 5, 2013 6:42 am

    I am sorry for your ongoing struggles in your region of the world. I hope that a solution will present itself. Women deserve a better life than they have in your nation.

    If I may suggest–avoid adopting the American feminist model. Your country is probably not ready for all that it entails. I would look at the suffrage movement as a model and avoid the 2nd and 3rd wave of feminism altogether. If you try to implement it there many women will die.

    Stick with the suffrage model and go easy. I strongly suggest that you never attempt to emulate the American model. It is great for women, but it is slowly but surely killing the family unit. Divorce is sustained and critically high at around 50%, and the length of marriages is decreasing. Children are raised in turmoil and division as parents knock heads together in conflict. Our nation has never been more divided on gender issues, and a new Scientific research study has shown that in general women are less happy than they were before feminism gained a footing here.

  49. Sarah Chinski permalink
    October 21, 2013 4:08 am

    Just wanted to let you know that an online message board (whose sole purpose is to rip apart Christian families and their choices) has now taken up discussion about you. These women claim to be feminists, but since their specialty is tearing women down, I highly doubt that is their true standpoint. Anyway, the link is here. They think they’re crafty by breaking the link, so you can’t see where the traffic is coming from.
    http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19692&sid=3dac4e52e43178ac34bef28f41dd15c1
    I hope their comments on you don’t turn nasty, but unfortunately that’s what they like to do, so I wouldn’t doubt it.

    • espa2008 permalink
      October 22, 2013 1:34 pm

      I read a handful of comments on the link you shared, and they were all supportive of this post.

    • Sarah permalink
      November 25, 2013 8:54 am

      They all seem supportive of this blogger.

    • Tottie permalink
      November 25, 2013 10:58 pm

      There have been quite a few comments like this one, dotted about under blog posts and articles over the past few weeks. The commenter always links to a particular forum and says she “just wanted to let you know” about it. Sometimes it seems like she is trying to condemn the forum but, more than anything, it seems like some kind of guerrilla advertising campaign. Certainly, the point seems to be to shepherd people onto that forum. It’s a bit cynical if you ask me.

Trackbacks

  1. Racism in Western Feminism is Hurting Women Like Me « A BLOG ... | Fabulous Feminism | Scoop.it
  2. Privilege resources | Hamilton Feminist Men's Group
  3. Racism in Western Feminism is Hurting Women Like Me | Feminism and Colonialism | Scoop.it
  4. Patronizing won’t help anything: tips about being an ally | Life as Improvisation
  5. Para quem se acha feminista… | maisk3D

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